(The following is an interview of Raye Dawn Porter, questioning by Kevin Garrett and an unidentified female agent. The tape begins at 23 second into the interview.)
Mr. Garrett: Briggs?
Ms. Porter: Use to be Robinson
Mr. Garrett: It’s so confusing.
Ms. Porter: It is confusing. It is a mess.
Mr. Garrett: It’s just kind of confusing, so—
Ms. Porter: I know.
Mr. Garrett: Is he coming home?
Ms. Porter: He is already home. He has—
Mr. Garrett: Have you talked to him since he’s been back?
Ms. Porter: No. There is a protective order against him—
Mr. Garrett: From you guys?
Ms. Porter: --because he’s already made threats to cause—that he wants to see me, and so they immediately got a protective order. And there’s one against him and his mom for me.
Mr. Garrett: Because I know the other day you were telling me that—and I appreciate you coming up here on such short notice.
Ms. Porter: No problem.
Mr. Garrett: And that was nice of you to drive up. Our office is so much nicer than—sometimes you go down to the sheriff’s office, and they have no room and people are always bugging you, kind of like that phone, sort of. But your were telling me on the 11th, which was, what, Tuesday, Kelsey Shelton Smith-Briggs is your daughter: right?
Ms. Porter: (The witness nodded her head.)
Mr. Garrett: And her date of birth is 12/28/2002?
Ms. Porter: Yes.
Mr. Garrett: And that Raymond Lance Briggs is the father?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh?
Mr. Garrett: Is that correct?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: And he’s in the Army?
Ms. Porter: Yes.
Mr. Garrett: And he was in Iraq?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: How did he get out of Iraq? I didn’t think anybody got out of there.
Ms. Porter: They—it’s really fishy, if you ask me, because he has done this before. He’s been able to out of it. Supposedly, he was supposed to have left last September. He never left. He just popped in and out every now and then. Sometimes when, like, I would go give Kathie her visitation, well, sometimes Lance would just be there. “What’s he home for”?
Mr. Garrett: Now, this is Kathie—that’s—
Ms. Porter: His mother.
Mr. Garrett: His mother, but it’s Kathie—
Ms. Porter: Briggs.
Mr. Garrett: --Briggs.
Ms. Porter: But he was always on leave for something. And everybody—nobody understood how, if you’re in the Army, how you can be home so much.
Mr. Garrett: And he was stationed in Iraq back then?
Ms. Porter: No. He was suppose to be.
Mr. Garrett: But her never went?
Ms. Porter: But he never left until, supposedly, in April. They said he left in April and then here probably less than a month ago, his wife filed for divorce, supposedly, and then now he has a back problem and he’s come home.
Mr. Garrett: So you married Kelsey’s dad in July of 2000?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: And you got divorced in July of 2002?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: Now, you were telling me—because Zae (phonetic) wasn’t there when we were talking the other day, and that’s why I’m going over this—that you were pregnant and he was abusive and he beat you up or something and that caused you to have a miscarriage?
Ms. Porter: That was before Kelsey, yes.
Mr. Garrett: Right. But how far along were you pregnant then?
Ms. Porter: Maybe two months is all.
Mr. Garrett: Two months? So it’s not like you had a big belly?
Ms. Porter: No, no.
Mr. Garrett: Did he know you were pregnant at the time?
Ms. Porter: Oh, yeah.
Mr. Garrett: And something from the—did you get hit in the stomach or something? Is that what caused you to have the miscarriage?
Ms. Porter: He did it in our bedroom.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. Because I was kind of curious the other day when you mentioned that. Of course, it depends on how far along the fetus is as far as, you know, is it really alive or not.
Ms. Porter: Right. And they said it was just—it was detached.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. So that’s why no charges against him at that point?
Ms. Porter: Yeah. I mean, I didn’t press any charges. I was married to him.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. And the you married Michael Porter on April the 18th of ’05?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: Now, how long did you date Michael? I mean, how long has Michael been around?
Ms. Porter: October the 15th will be—we’ve been together a year.
Mr. Garrett: Were you dating October the 15th?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. We met—we started dating October 15th.
Mr. Garrett: Of ’05?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. No, ’04.
Mr. Garrett: ’04. How did you meet him?
Ms. Porter: Well, through a person that I know and his best friend.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. Somebody there in Meeker?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. That works with him.
Mr. Garrett: Are you from Meeker? Did you go to high school there in Meeker?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. I’ve lived there all my life.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. You’re not real old. You were born in ’79? That makes you, what, 25?
Ms. Porter: I’ll be 26 next month.
Mr. Garrett: Twenty-six. Okay. So what kind of a guy is Michael?
Ms. Porter: He’s just a wonderful guy. I couldn’t ask for anything better.
Mr. Garrett: Well, now, Michael has two other children: right?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: Whitney—
Ms. Porter: And Michael.
Mr. Garrett: --and Michael Gage—
Ms. Porter: Right.
Mr. Garrett: --Porter.
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: And Michael Gage is how old?
Ms. Porter: He just turned two.
Mr. Garrett: And Whitney was—is it eight or nine, did you tell me?
Ms. Porter: She is eight.
Mr. Garrett: And she went to school thee in Shawnee?
Ms. Porter: At Sequoyah.
Mr. Garrett: And that’s where you went—what was it—what time was it?
Ms. Porter: I left about 2:45.
Mr. Garrett: 2:45. Okay. And Michael came home, I think from what you told me the other day, and then you went to pick up Whitney at school. Was that about a 15-minute drive?
Ms. Porter: It’s a little bit longer. I think I got there about 3:10 or something.
Mr. Garrett: Do you have a question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: They’re calling you. They’re paging you. I don’t now what that’s about.
Mr. Garrett: I don’t care.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: If we could, I’m kind of coming in late. And I don’t know, if Kevin, if you mind, if we could just start with that day, you know. I know we were talking about how you had left and went to pick up Whitney. If we could, just kind of start with that morning, like what time you got up. And I know that you went through this before and it’s going to be tough for you, but—
Ms. Porter: That’s Okay. It was a normal day. I think she got up about—I got up earlier than she did. I don’t know exactly what time. She got up probably in between 9:30 or 10, something like that, and I went up there and told her that Jean was coming to see her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And Jean is—
Ms. Porter: She is the CHBS worker that comes once a week for two hours to see Kelsey.
Mr. Garrett: Now, what about food? Didn’t you tell me that you-guys had something to eat?
Ms. Porter: She had some soup and—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Did she have any breakfast when she got up at 9:30 or 10?
Ms. Porter: It was her soup. She ate soup.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Okay. About what time was it that she had the soup?
Ms. Porter: I don’t know. It was a little bit after she woke up, because she didn’t like to eat right when she got up, so it had to have been a little bit later. And then we just—she just kind of hung around the house. She stayed in her pajamas. She had on her little black slips and her black shirt.
Mr. Garrett: What time did she go out and play with the turtle?
Ms. Porter: That was about 1:16 when Jean left. Because when Jean was leaving, Jean noticed the turtle.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. And what time did Jean get there? Did anything else happen in the morning? You said you woke up and she had some soup for breakfast.
Ms. Porter: Yeah, it was just a normal day.
Mr. Garrett: Wearing the PJs.
Ms. Porter: And I put my makeup on and she came in there and watched me and then she went and got back on the bed and watched TV, picked at her toenails, and just normal, everyday stuff.
Mr. Garrett: Well, what time did Jean get there, the CHBS lady?
Ms. Porter: She was suppose to be there at 11:00, but she called me. She called me about—in between 10:30 and 11:00 and said she was running behind and she would be there between 11:30 and 12:00.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. What time did she get there?
Ms. Porter: She got there at 12:00.
Mr. Garrett: So at noon is when Jean got there?
Ms. Porter Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. Now, how was Kelsey doing at that point? Was she fine?
Mr. Porter: She was fine. I said, “Kelsey, Jean’s here,” when the doorbell rang. She runs to meet her at the door.
Mr. Garrett: Oh, really?
Ms. Porter: Yeah.
Mr. Garrett: Did she play with Jean a lot?
Ms. Porter: Yeah, she knew who she was.
Mr. Garrett: What kind of an interrelationship do they have? Is that something that they normally do? Do they play games and stuff?
Ms. Porter: Yeah, Kelsey, you know, would run to the door and she would tell her hi or whatever, and Jean would ask her how she was doing. And they would come in there and sit on the on the couch and Jean would look, you know, kind of look at her, just how—what they were suppose to do. Kelsey would talk to her. Kelsey would talk to her, you know, about who knows what. She always had something to say.
Mr. Garrett: Kelsey always had something to say to Jean?
Ms. Porter: I mean, she was just a talkative little girl. She just talked a lot. She would try to play with Jean’s briefcase, because it has the little snaps on it. And she watched—we watched Stuart Little. We turned Stuart Little 2 on.
Mr. Garrett: That is a good cartoon.
Ms. Porter: She loved it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Did Jean look her over? I mean, as part of the visit does she physically look at—
Ms. Porter: Yeah, she just kind of looks at her. I mean, she doesn’t make it obvious to Kelsey, because, you know, whenever Kathie and them had her, it was brought to my attention that Kelsey, every time she went there from me—every time she went back there or before she left they stripped her down and checked her over and counted, you know, if she had any scratches or any bruises or anything. And so when I—when I got her back, she didn’t like—you know, most little kids don’t care if they run around naked. Kelsey just didn’t—it started bugging her. So she just kind of would look at her arm and her face and stuff and she’d always count her play bruises on her legs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Kelsey would count her play bruises?
Ms. Porter: No, she used to, but she stopped doing that. But, you know, Jean would just kind of look her over, you know. Then she went through, like, the kitchen. You know, we were doing the safety—one the things that CHBS does, we were doing just one of the safety things, so I signed the papers. She looked through—
Mr. Garrett: Now, what’s a safety thing?
Ms. Porter: Like she’d look through the kitchen to see if anything, you know, that would hurt Kelsey was within Kelsey’s reach. Like, she would measure how tall she was and—
Mr. Garrett: Like some kind of poisons or something like that?
Ms. Porter: Yeah, And, like, if there was—like, say, for instance, there were some screws in one of the drawers. You know, she counted how many were there and she put that down. And, you know, I never thought anything about screws in a drawer.
Mr. Garrett: Why does Jean come there anyway? I don’t think you actually said. Now, I know she works for CHBS. What is CHBS? What does that stand for?
Ms. Porter: Community Home Based Services.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
Ms. Porter: And all it was, was just—it was pretty much for my protection, because since Kelsey was being, you know—she was in DHS custody anyway. And so I had to do a treatment plan, you know, that they set out for me to do. And CHBS is one of them, and I didn’t care that they were there or not. I mean, I was more than happy for them to come and check on her every day.
Mr. Garrett: So they were there to check on her?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: And they came every day?
Ms. Porter: No, I didn’t care if they came every day.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. So when did Jean come?
Ms. Porter: They came once a week. She came once a week, Tuesdays at 11:00 usually.
Mr. Garrett: So she had a set time she was going to do it?
Ms. Porter: Yes.
Mr. Garrett: Now, how long was she supposed to keep coming by and doing this? Was this forever or just for a couple of months?
Ms. Porter: No, this was suppose to end in either the middle of December or the court date that they set in January.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
Ms. Porter: And—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And why was she in DHS custody.
Ms. Porter: It goes back to January. She jumped out of her bed and had a broken collarbone.
Mr. Garrett: Is this January of ’05?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
Ms. Porter: And she had bruises on her face and some other bruises. And that was Kathie’s chance to, you know—I mean, and I took her to the doctor over the broken clavicle when I realized it was broken. But I—
Mr. Garrett: Now, Kathie is Raymond’s mother: right?
Ms. Porter: (The witness nodded her head.)
Mr. Garrett: So it’s your ex-mother-in-law.
Ms. Porter: And, you know, so she jumped on that. And they took her back to the doctor after I had already took her to the doctor. And when they took her to the doctor, it was child abuse. So then Kathie wouldn’t give her back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: You took her to two different doctors?
Ms. Porter: I only took her to a doctor and they treated her for the clavicle, you know, and sent her home. They said how much—you know, everybody sees broken clavicles, you know. It’s normal to see on little kids, you know, when they have accidents or whatever, that they see them all the time. And then when I gave her—sent her to Kathie, I explained that she jumped out of the bed and broke her collarbone. Well, when I go back to pick her up, they never meet me. And so I called Kathie and I said, “What’s the deal?” And she said, “We’re not giving her back to you.”
Mr. Garrett: Did that happen at your apartment there in Meeker or at the house you live in now?
Ms. Porter: At my apartment in Meeker?
Mr. Garrett: Now, where did you live at? What apartment was that?
Ms. Porter: Meeker Village Apartments.
Mr. Garrett: Meeker Village Apartments. Is that one like when you’re going south from the intersection of 62 and 18 and you back to the right a little ways up the hill and there’s some apartments? Is that the one?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
Ms. Porter: It was just me and Kelsey that lived there.
Mr. Garrett: Now, I think your mom told me—did your grandmother live around there somewhere?
Ms. Porter: My grandmother lived right across the street on—is it 18? I get them confused. She lived right across the way.
Mr. Garrett: Oh, okay.
Ms. Porter: So whenever she was working outside, me and Kelsey could go out on the deck and we could see her.
Mr. Garrett: Now, you didn’t know Michael at this point: right?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. Oh, on January—
Mr. Garrett: Back in January?
Ms. Porter: Yeah.
Mr. Garrett: You did?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: Was Michael there at the house when she fell out of the bed?
Ms. Porter: No, no And that was a big ordeal.
Mr. Garrett: What was a big ordeal?
Ms. Porter: That—that they kept asking about that, that Kathie was—you know, that he was probably there.
Mr. Garrett: Was she insinuating Michael hurt Kelsey?
Ms. Porter: They’ve been insinuating that from the beginning.
Mr. Garrett: So they think Michael was mean to her?
Ms. Porter: They have insinuated that from that beginning. And they don’t even know—they don’t know him. They don’t know anything. But like I told—like my mom knew, I knew, whenever I –because I was single from the day Kelsey was born, even before that, up until I met Mike. So we knew that once I—you know, found somebody, something was going to happen, because it was okay for Kelsey to have a stepmom, but we knew it wasn’t going to be okay for her to have a stepdad. We just knew that.
Mr. Garrett: Did Kelsey like Michael okay?
Ms. Porter: She loved him.
Mr. Garrett: And did Michael like her?
Ms. Porter: He loved her to death.
Mr. Garrett: Just like it was own?
Ms. Porter: She called him daddy.
Mr. Garrett: Well, sometimes being a stepparent is not real easy.
Ms. Porter: Yeah.
Mr. Garrett: I mean, I’ve been there before.
Ms. Porter: Yeah, it’s hard.
Mr. Garrett: It’s hard. Especially when the other father is involved. And since you didn’t have Raymond involved but you had his mother, Kathie—
Ms. Porter: Right.
Mr. Garrett: --I mean, sometimes that can cause a lot of friction.
Ms. Porter: Yeah. And I just—I didn’t—I didn’t have any contact with her, really. After this started, I steered clear of her. Because we used to be friends, I mean, me and Kathie. One of her daughters was on the pom squad with me. I mean, we hung out together. I went over to Kathie’s. Kathie highlighted my hair. So it’s not like I just met her when I got with Lance. And so they wouldn’t give her back. So Kathie goes and files for a guardianship. The day she does that, I got Kelsey up, to her to day care. I’m working, and I get a call and said they’re coming to get Kelsey. The cops and Kathie are coming to take Kelsey. I didn’t know what to do.
Mr. Garrett: And this was in January of ’05?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. And so, you know, Kelsey, we had a routine every day, you know, of what we did. We got up, I took her to Ms. Julie’s, I went to work. I went to school, went back to work, went to pick her up, and we went home. It was every day. And so then just all of a sudden, Kelsey is ripped away from the day care she knows. And so, you know, she was just—I think Kelsey was traumatized by that. And so Kathie—this was all a messed up deal. The visitation and all that was a big mess. I’ve been to court with these people I don’t how many times.
Mr. Garrett: For you to be able to visit Kelsey?
Ms. Porter: It was since the divorce on, I have. So that’s why I wanted to tell you I am—don’t –on dates and when stuff happened. And then the visits, and then that’s whenever she—and then later she went to the zoo with my sister-in-law, which is my brother’s wife. She sprained her ankle while they were there.
Mr. Garrett: When was that? What month was that?
Ms. Porter: That was April.
Mr. Garrett: April of ’05?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: That’s going to be the zoo trip. Okay. Keep going.
Ms. Porter: And I should have brought my calendar.
Mr. Garrett: Well, I remember the story, but Zae hasn’t heard it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: You’re kind of catching me up.
Ms. Porter: I should have brought my calendar, if I had thought about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: So your sister-in-law, takes Kelsey—
Ms. Porter: --to the zoo. She’s with my two nieces, which are her two cousins, and they were—they we’re like sisters. I’m sorry.
Mr. Garrett: How old were those two little girls?
Ms. Porter: Eight and nine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: So they picked Kelsey up from you to take to the zoo? Was she back with you at this point?
Ms. Porter: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Not completely?
Ms. Porter: No. But Miste asked if she could go to the zoo and , of course, I said yes. They went wit the girls’ school, and so they took her. And I just saw those pictures last night. But Miste called and said, “You know, she does not want to walk to walk on this foot.” And I said, “Okay.” And so she comes and picks me up from work and we take her to the Unity Urgent Care. They X-rayed her ankle and they said, “It’s just sprung.” They give me a paper over sprained ankles and said, “Continue to have her walk on it to keep it, you know, going. Don’t let her stay off of it.” And I said, “Okay,”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And this is Urgent Care where?
Ms. Porter: Unity. It’s in Shawnee.
Mr. Garrett: Was it Unity—was it the south one or the north one?
Ms. Porter: It’s the south one. It’s down by Firelake Casino.
Mr. Garrett: Right. It used to be Mission Hill years ago.
Ms. Porter: Right. And so when I took her back to Kathie, I told her, you know, to—that she sprung her ankle. I gave her a paper about the sprained ankle. She tried to hand it back to me and I said, “No, you keep it, “ I said, “so—you know, I gave that to you, because I already have one.” She said, “Okay.” And then when I pick her up, this next time I go to pick her up, she’s crawling. And Kathie said she fell earlier that week and didn’t walk anymore, didn’t want to walk anymore. So, you know, I get her home and I make her start waking up and down the hallway, because I told her, I said, “Kelsey, you’ve got to walk on it. The doctor said so.” She walked on it, you know, throughout the weekend. They started swelling, both of her legs, and they felt kind of hot. And everybody asked me, “Why didn’t you take her to the doctor then?” I don’t know. And that Monday, I took her to DHS and explained to them, “I don’t know what to do. Her legs are swollen . She doesn’t want to walk.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Did you take her back to the doctor before you took her to DHS?
Ms. Porter: No, because another time—when I did take he to have her ankle checked—I don’t know if I told you this part. When I did take her back when I had her ankle checked, I was suppose to see Kelsey again—was it that night? – and when I went to pick her up, they said they weren’t to give her back to me because I took her to Urgent Care. And so, of course, I’m thinking, Well, if I take her to DHS before I take her to the doctor and everybody is on the up and up and everybody knows. I was just trying to cover my rear.
Mr. Garrett: That you’re not trying to hide some injuries?
Ms. Porter: Right. And I’m like, So they wouldn’t give her back when I did take her to the doctor for a sprained ankle, so I’ll just take her to DHS, see what they say, and then I’ll take her and everything will be fine. So they said, “Yes, she needs to go to the doctor.” I said, “Okay.” I take her, and come to find out, both of her legs were broken.
Mr. Garrett: Did she—did Kathie ever say how that could have happened at the zoo?
Ms. Porter: The only information I got, because I even—
Mr. Garrett: Or Miste. I’m sorry. It was Miste, your sister-in-law.
Ms. Porter: She was wearing some little purple platform flip-flops. And that’s the only thing that she might have twisted on them, you know, which that’s what I told everybody. I wear them.
Mr. Garrett: And you fall down a lot when you wear flip-flops?
Ms. Porter: Yeah, the platform ones. And we never wore them again. But then they said, well, I thought they ankle was only sprung, and that’s what nobody understood.
Mr. Garrett: Did they X-ray the ankle when that happened?
Ms. Porter: (The witness nodded her head.)
Mr. Garrett: So there’s no way there was a break at that point?
Ms. Porter: And the doctor said it was fine.
Mr. Garrett: So you’re—how do you figure that might have happened to her legs?
Ms. Porter: I don’t know, and I don’t like to think about it, because I have my own—I have my own observation of, you know, what was going on there.
Mr. Garrett: Well, what do you think?
Ms. Porter: I don’t know if my told you this too, but we always said that they were trying to set me up. The wanted me out of the picture.
Mr. Garrett: Kathie?
Ms. Porter: And Lance’s wife.
Mr. Garrett: What was her name?
Ms. Porter: Ashley.
Mr. Garrett: Ashley
Ms. Porter: Because she called Kelsey her daughter.
Ms. Garrett: So you’re thinking, the, that Kathie or Ashley had something to do with her legs getting broke?
Ms. Porter: That’s my thought that something that I don’t know that I never wanted to think about that would happen.
Mr. Garrett: She didn’t fall out of the crib anymore at your house or fall down the—were you at the new house? Because you’ve got a lot of stairs at the new house.
Ms. Porter: Right No, we just moved.
Mr. Garrett: So even the thing when the sprained ankle occurred, you still lived at the apartment in Meeker?
Ms. Porter: Right.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
Ms. Porter: And so—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: What did the doctor say as to how he thought the legs might have been broken? What did he say?
Ms. Porter: That’s another deal. When I took her to the doctor and they said they were broken—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Both legs, like in the same place? Broken how?
Mr. Garrett: Below the knee, didn’t you say?
Ms. Porter: They said they were spiral.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Spiral?
Ms. Porter: But when I looked at them, they looked like little cracks. They weren’t like broken in half or anything. They were just little cracks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: So what did the doctor say he thought would have caused it?
Ms. Porter The doctor for the right on said it was consistent with the zoo. They said it could have happened when—because they only X-rayed her ankle. They didn’t X-ray from the knee down, so they said it could have happened then. And they said her left one was newer. And the time that they gave that to me, I didn’t have her then.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: But what did he say happened?
Ms. Porter: They said the the left one might have been over—from over—is it called exertion?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Like overcompensation?
Ms. Porter: Yeah. And they said the left one might have done from that. And then—which I didn’t really understand it, but—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: What doctor was this that did the leg?
Ms. Porter: Dr. Koons and Dr. Barrett did it.
Mr. Garrett: Now, Barrett’s the bone doctor right?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh, Dr. Barrett casted her. And they told me that day. So then they said, “Bring her in in the morning and we will cast her.“ So I said, “Okay.” I take her in, we had her casted, I take her back to Kathie and I thought, you know, we were started to communicate better. That’s what DHS was trying to get us to do. I tried to do it along time ago for Kelsey’s sake. I mean, I tried to get along with these people. I took her to their birthday parties and everything. And I told her, you know, what—she already knew the situation. And then she called me sometime later that week and she said, well—or maybe she told me when I dropped her off. She said that she was going to take her for her bone density test, because we were going to have her tested for brittle bone. And I said, “You can get her in this soon?” And she said, “Yeah I called up there.” And I was like “Okay.” And she said, “You’re more than welcome to go.” Well, my great-grandmother dies, and so the day that Kathie was going to take her was my great-grandmother’s funeral, so I can’t go.
She takes her to the doctor and they have her casts taken off. They were on one week and they had them taken off. And the OU doctor said that they were better. Well, Kelsey would not walk. The next time I seen her, she would not walk on them. They still hurt her. And nobody could believe it. So—and when she took her to the doctor again, it was abuse. So there was this pattern here. And my mom thinks that there was a setup, probably, for me—why she wanted me to go. Who knows? So DHS takes her from Kathie, thank God. And me and my mom rushed to Chandler DHS. My mom fills out foster parent papers. And they—they check my mom out and everything and they give her to my mom. My mom takes her back to the doctor, to Dr. Barrett and Dr. Koons, and they said her legs are still broken.They recast her and they were left on for a month longer.
Mr. Garrett: And you said the casts were removed at OU Medical Center; is that right?
Ms. Porter: Yes.
Mr. Garrett: Is that right?
Ms. Porter: (The witness shook her head.)
Mr. Garrett: And gave—let’s see your mom’s name is Gayla; right?
Ms. Porter: Yes.
Mr. Garrett: What’s her last name?
Ms. Porter: Smith.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. So is that still going to be the April timeframe on that, all the in April or maybe some April-May?
Ms. Porter: Yeah, it was May—
Mr. Garrett: When did your mom get custody of her?
Ms. Porter: That’s what I’m thinking. I think it was May 3rd, but don’t quote me on all these dates.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. Well, there will be records, I’m sure, that we can check. Approximately May the 3rd.
Ms. Porter: Because—and that’s why—I was talking to DHS I said these dates, and they just told me to do the best I could.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. So anything else happen then? Any other incidents with Kathie and Kelsey? Because your thinking that somewhere down the road that Kathie has been maybe abusing your daughter?
Ms. Porter: I think somebody over there was, because I never knew where Kelsey was. When they had her, they just—they shipped her around a lot. And whenever we were going through this at first, my sister-in-law, you know, she was supposed to be with Kathie, but then she was caught with Lance’s wife.
Mr. Garrett: Who—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Who was caught? Kelsey?
Ms. Porter: Yes. And Kathie was supposed to be the one with the guardianship taking care of Kelsey.
Mr. Garrett: The one who was watching her.
Ms. And every time, you know, like my little sister would see her at Wal-Mart or something, Kathie didn’t have her, which I said, “Well, where is my daughter?” But when I’d call, she was always asleep. So I don’t know—and as for her seizures, she never had a medical issue ever up until—the first thing I noticed, you know, that was probably internally or mentally or whatever, her hair fell out in March. She had long blond hair, and I—one night when I had her for a visit, I gave her a bath and I went to comb her hair, I noticed that there was like a little spot, so I moved it and about this much in the back of her head, all of her hair had feel out.
Mr. Garrett: Like somebody might have pulled it out or you think that it was nutritional problems?
Ms. Porter: That’s what—Kathie told me that Kelsey was pulling her hair out. And even DHS said, “Well, even if she is pulling her out, that still means she’s not well.” And so I had that checked out, and it did fall out. It was because there was no—they said when you pull your hair out, there’s little bumps. And I could have told them that. It was just as smooth as her bottom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Did they tell you why they thought it fell out?
Ms. Porter: They said malnutrition or—because she wouldn’t –whenever—she went from eating, probably—I mean, she would eat two or three bowls of goulash, to she really didn’t want any, you know, and that just wasn’t her. She was depressed and nobody—nobody would listen to her. She was never on any medication. But when I got her in January, she was on three deals of antibiotics within a month and a half of two months. She had allergy medicine—and she never had allergies—she was on allergy medicine. And she constantly sent cold medicine with her. Her nose wasn’t running or anything. She was just constantly on medicine. And I was just like, “I don’t even want to give this to her, because there’s nothing wrong with her.” And then eventually, you know, Mom noticed that she had a little seizure wither. She said, “I guess that’s what it was, “ because Mom had never seen such either.
Mr. Garrett: Well, let’s go—so January of ’05 is when she has the shoulder break and Kathie gets DHS involved and Kathie gets custody of Kelsey. And then in March you’re noticing her hair is starting to fall out. And then in April is the zoo trip when she ends up spraining the ankle, and later we find out she’s got a leg broke. And then approximately May the 3rd is when DHS took Kelsey away from Kathie and gave her to your mother, Gayla.
Ms. Porter: Because she had them casts taken off and they were still broken.
Mr. Garrett: And then they put the casts back on. And I think you told me the other night. How long were the casts on?
Ms. Porter: When Kathie had them taken off?
Mr. Garrett: No, after your mother and you took her back and they then put back on.
Ms. Porter: A month.
Mr. Garrett: They were on a month. Now, I don’t know if it was you or your mother. How high were those casts?
Ms. Porter: They were up to her thighs.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. That’s what I was thinking. I don’t remember if you told me that or your mother.
Ms. Porter: Probably my mom.
Mr. Garrett: But the casts were pretty high. Is it pretty hard to walk when you have casts on like that?
Ms. Porter: She walked just fine.
Mr. Garrett: Did she really?
Ms. Porter: (The witness shook her head.)
Mr. Garrett: Was she always pretty happy and playful even thought she had the casts on?
Mr. Porter: Oh, she went 90 miles an hour, I’ve see her up at—because I would go for my visit at DHS. And I still have the casts in a box, and you can see where she wore the casts down and her toes were—
Mr. Garrett: Because she was so active?
Ms. Porter: She went everywhere on them. Mom said you could see her out in the yard just—she went 90 miles an hour all the time.
Mr. Garrett: When did you get her back as far as she got to stay with you and not Kathie or your mom?
Ms. Porter: In June.
Mr. Garrett: In June? Do you remember what day in June?
Ms. Porter: No, not specifically. I want to say the first of June sometime.
Mr. Garrett: First part. Now, you told me, I think, the other night and Zae wasn’t there, so she doesn’t know. Now, apparently she was still in DHS custody, but you—now, how did that work out? You got her?
Ms. Porter: The judge placed her in my home, but she remained in DHS custody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: So in January, she went with Kathie and was with Kathie until May when she went with your mom.
Mr. Garrett: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And then in June she came back to live with you.
Ms. Porter: And, you know, my mom said that—because, you know, it was me and her for two years. She was happy, healthy, ornery, rambunctious, climbed on everything. And then my mom said when she got her, she wouldn’t talk on the phone. She was, you distant from people. She would hide her face when people would, you know, try to talk to her. She just wasn’t—so eventually after my mom had her, she came back to the way she was. She was on no medication, she was fine, and she came back with, the only thing was that she had, you know, that one seizure with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And when was that?
Ms. Porter: That was in the month of May. It had to have been, because she only had her for May.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Was that the first seizure that she had?
Ms. Porter: That we know of. And then there was a time I ws up at DHS talking to a worker—
Mr. Garrett: Was it Yolanda?
Ms. Porter: Probably one of them. Yeah, she was on of them.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
Ms. Porter: And there was a phone call for me. And they said that Kathie had called my mom’s and grandma’s or somebody and said that Kelsey was screaming uncontrollable saying, “I want my mommy.” And they said she was out of control So I left there and went—so no telling how many times that happened. So I don’t know how many times—if she had seizures with them, I don’t know.
Mr. Garrett: But there was definitely one time, though, with your mother Gayla.
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: And that’s going to back in May of ’05.
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: No, I’m still trying to get on this June of ’05 where you got Kelsey back. No, you were telling me that she’s living with you, but she’s still in DHS custody. Now, explain that to me. How—
Ms. Porter: She was placed back in my with DHS supervision.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. So DHS supervision.
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: But placed back into your house.
Ms. Porter: And I told them that’s fine. Pop in whenever you want to. That’s fine.
Mr. Garrett: And is that why the CHBS thing was about? Was that the only DHS activity you had, or did you have something besides CHBS?
Ms. Porter: No, they would pop in sometimes whenever. And then Yolanda would come and see Kelsey, and Yolanda even talked to Kelsey on the phone. CHBS came once a week.
Mr. Garrett: Well, how long did the—okay. So you had the CHBS lady coming once a week. What about Yolanda, the DHS—was it child welfare?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: How often did she come?
Ms. Porter: She was just there Friday.
Mr. Garrett: Did she come once a week or—
Ms. Porter: No, she would just come every now—I don’t know, just every now and then she would come just to check on her. And I called—I called, you know, probably every other day or so just to tell them how she was doing, or if Kelsey wanted to talk to Yolanda.
Mr. Garrett: You called DHS every other day?
Ms. Porter: Well, just off and on.
Mr. Garrett: Yeah.
Ms. Porter: Just to let them know how Kelsey was doing, just to—you know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Was that part of the plan or whatever, you’re supposed to call them every—
Ms. Porter: No, and it wasn’t like every other day, just—I just called in and checked in just to let them know how she was doing, because she was back to Kelsey. She was running and having fun and she was eating. She was just—and then I did tell them when she would have—you know, if she would have a seizure or whatever, I would call and let them know that she did have one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Did a doctor ever diagnose these seizures or give any kind of reason for them?
Ms. Porter: She had an appointment to have an EEG done November the 14th to diagnose her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: But other than that, no doctor had said, yes, she’s definitely having seizures. This is why we think—
Ms. Porter: I explained to Dr. Koons what was happening, and she said it definitely sounds like seizures, because Kelsey would stiffen up and she would chew on her tongue and her eyes would just kind of go. And—both they weren’t real bad and they weren’t long. They were real light, and I could get her—I could get her out of them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: How?
Ms. Porter: I would just holler at her and say, “Kelsey, Mommy’s here. Mommy’s here.” And eventually, you know, it would just take just a few seconds, and she would just look at me. And they scared her to death. But she would come out of it. And then afterwards she just went on said, “Mom, I’m so tired,” and she wanted to lay down. And they told me seizures were no big deal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT:: Who told you?
Ms. Porter: The doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: What doctor?
Ms. Porter: Dr. Koons. She said they were not a big deal. And to let her go to sleep after she had one, because I kept her awake for like an hour afterwards. Because she would tell me, “Mommy, I’m so tired,” and I’d say, “No, Kelsey. You’ve got to stay awake for a little bit.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: How many of these seizures did she have while she was with you from June until—
Ms. Porter: She had maybe four.
Mr. Garrett: No, the first one was with Gayla, you mother.
Ms. Porter: Right.
Mr. Garrett: And that was in May.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And you’re not counting that in the four that she had after she came to live with you in June.
Ms. Porter: I don’t know. I don’t think so. I think she had four. And I think—I think she had four and then Tuesday was five, because she had them after—because we were in our wreck in August or September. Sometime we were in a wreck, and she was supposed to go for a visit to her stepmom’s. And I had tried to prepare her beginning earlier that week that she was going to have to go, and we were in the wreck. Well, she was in the wreck, so, of course, it’s not going to happen.
Mr. Garrett: Now, that wreck was in Shawnee?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: And it was you and Mike?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh, and Kelsey.
Mr. Garrett: Just the three of you.
Ms. Porter: And a drunk driver hit us on the driver’s side.
Mr. Garrett: Didn’t you tell me the other night that you-guys got checked out by a doctor on that?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. And they said that Kelsey had, you now, she didn’t have any internal injuries or she would be in shock or something. She was too active to have anything wrong with her. And after—o she didn’t go for the visit. And I think it was the night after the wreck she had a little seizure. And then they did—they got—Ashley did get her visit, I think it was the next weekend, and then they didn’t get any more visits after that and—
Mr. Garrett: Now, are those supervised visits? I mean, they didn’t take her home to spend the night or anything, did they?
Ms. Porter: Oh, she went to their house.
Mr. Garrett: Oh, she did?
Ms. Porter: And—
Mr. Garrett: And Ashley’s last name is Briggs; right?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. She did go, and before she went, I had CHBS to come and see Kelsey before she left just because I knew how they were. And so she came and seen her, you know.
Mr. Garrett: What month was that?
Ms. Porter: I don’t know.
Mr. Garrett: Was it after the wreck in August or September?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. And she—where was I even at?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: She went to—
Mr. Garrett: Ashley’s house.
Ms. Porter: Yes. And after that visit, in the next couple of days or so I had to go to DHS to fill out some paperwork. They informed that there was a call made to Pott. County DHS and not Lincoln County.
Mr. Garrett: While she was at Ashley’s house?
Ms. Porter: (The witness shook her head.) I said, “Oh, really?”
Mr. Garrett. Who made that call? Was it Ashley or Kathie?
Ms. Porter: They couldn’t tell us.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
Ms. Porter: And so that stopped the visits. She didn’t go anymore.
Mr. Garrett: you stopped it?
Ms. Porter: No, DHS and the judge stopped them.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
Ms. Porter: And when we went to court for that, none of them showed up there do defend themselves. Nobody showed up for Kelsey. So none of them were there so their visits stopped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: So there’s an anonymous call into Pott. County DHS, we don’t know by who—
Ms. Porter: I don’t know, but DHS might.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: --that said what?
Ms. Porter: They went all the way back, they said, to January.
Mr. Garrett: I’m kind of lost on that too. So what was DHS looking at? Something that they did or you did supposedly?
Ms. Porter: They ignored the call. They didn’t say they ignored it, but they were expecting that they were going to do this.Mr.
Garrett: Well, what was the complaint, though? Was the complaint saying that they did something, being Ashley or Kathie, to your daughter or you did something to her?
Ms. Porter: They just called after they had seen her, saying that she had lost weight since her casts had been off, which she had.
Mr. Garrett: So they’re accusing that you’re not taking care of her.
Ms. Porter: Right.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
Ms. Porter: Exactly. But let me remind you that never had an problem—they never said I wasn’t taking care of her before for two years, but--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: So somebody called DHS in Pott. County while Kelsey was with them.
Ms. Porter: I don’t know if it was while she was there or after. I don’t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Okay. And because of that, Kelsey was no longer allowed to go visit them?
Ms. Porter: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And that was a decision DHS made?
Ms. Porter: The judge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: The judge made? And you’re saying that you think it was based on this phone call to Pott. Couny or whatever?
Ms. Porter: Right. I think I’m answering that question right.
Mr. Garrett: Now, who was the judge? Was it the Lincoln County judge?
Ms. Porter: Judge Craig Key. And I have talked—I have talked to him. I think it was yesterday.
Mr. Garrett: What did you-guys talk about?
Ms. Porter: He was just—he was very upset and he told me how sorry he was. He said, “We tried normalcy with these people.” He said, he said, “ I just realize now”—he said, “I realized,” he said—how did he say it? –“not very long ago” or, you know, here in the past, he noticed “normalcy with these people wasn’t going to happen.”
Mr. Garrett: Talking about who?
Ms. Porter: The Briggs
Mr. Garrett: Ashley and Kathie?
Ms. Porter: Yeah, And I tried to tell them from the very beginning how they were and what they were going to do. And nobody—and now everybody is saying, “You tried to tell us,” you know, because I tried to tell them, because Kelsey was supposed to go for a visit, supposedly, in tow weeks to see Lance unsupervised. He just comes back from the Army, which that upset me, because, you know, he just came back from war.
Mr. Garrett: Is it Raymond or Lance?
Ms. Porter: Everyone calls him Lance.
Mr. Garrett: Is it Raymond Lance?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
Ms. Porter: And I kept telling—I called Kelsey’s attorney, I called CASA, and told them, I said, “Kelsey can’t go through this again, “because it got—she had—when they took her away, for a long time she couldn’t be away from me, because if I would go to the bathroom and come back to her in the living room, she would say, “Mommy, you wasn’t coming back?” I said, “Kelsey, I just went to the bathroom.” But I had to go—me and her fought through that. And she finally got to where she would let me go into the kitchen without her, you know, without bursting into tears of “Mommy, you wasn’t coming back.” And she finally was okay with that. And then I think she—you know, the seizures had stopped. She—and then I think she—in my opinion is—because I would go into another room and talk about this. But I think from when Yolanda was there and told us, to when me and Jean did talk about it Tuesday, I think Kelsey just worried about it too much. And I think it caused—
Mr. Garrett: Worried about getting to see her dad?
Ms. Porter: (The witness nodded her head.)
Mr. Garrett: Well, you said that—did DHS—did Yolanda or somebody from DHS, are they the ones that told you that Raymond will get to see her when gets back?
Ms. Porter: And the judge told me yesterday that was not the case.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. So you said that made you upset. How did it make you upset? Did it make you want to—you know—
Ms. Porter: It made me upset, because I knew, because of Kelsey’s mental—I don’t know how to say it. It made me upset, because I didn’t want her to go through what she had already went through, because she worried about not ever getting to see her mommy again.
Mr. Garrett: So you’re worried about the mental aspect—
Ms. Porter: Right.
Mr. Garrett: --of her having to go there or at your house.
Ms. Porter: Right.
Mr. Garrett: What about you? Is that hard on you if had to give Kelsey to the dad for a weekend or something?
Ms. Porter: Yes. I showed her a picture the other day. I said, “Kelsey, who is that?” She thought it was my sister’s boyfriend. She didn’t have a clue who he was.
Mr. Garrett: Did you tell her who he was?
Ms. Porter: No.
Mr. Garrett: It’s her father: right? It’s her biological father. Do you think it’s good that she needs to know that or—
Ms. Porter: I don’t know how to explain that, because we were just looking through pictures and she—it was her and she said her and then she named my—and I just kind of want through it and kind of ignored it.
Mr. Garrett: Do you think Raymond would hurt Kelsey physically?
Ms. Porter: I don’t know.
Mr.Garrett: But he hasn’t been around, apparently, for a long time.
Ms. Porter: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: I mean, hardly at all.
Ms. Porter: And he’d just pop in here and there.
Mr. Garrett: Right.
Ms. Porter: And I’ve never seen him with her. I never saw him interact with her.
Mr. Garrett: But, obviously, she broke her collarbone and her legs sometime without him even being around.
Ms. Porter: Right.
Mr. Garrett: But you’re worried that he might hurt her.
Ms. Porter: I just don’t know. I don’t want to answer that, because I don’t know. I’ve never seen her with him.
Mr. Garrett: So you don’t know if he would hurt her or not.
Ms. Porter: Right.
Mr. Garrett: But you’re thinking that the mental, emotional problem would be rough on Kelsey.
Ms. Porter: On her. That’s all I was worried about. I just—she worried to much for a two-year-old. Sometimes you could just tell. You’d think she carried the world on her shoulders.
Mr. Garrett: Did she cry a lot?
Ms. Porter: (The witness shook her head.)
Mr. Garrett: Tell us a little bit about her, because we never met Kelsey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Because I have a 2 ½ year old, and I’m just wondering how you could see that she was worried internally about—
Ms. Porter: Okay.
Mr. Garrett: Visiting Lance, or Raymond?
Ms. Porter: She—like Tuesday, she didn’t lead on that she was worried or anything. But when she was—when I would go to see her at DHS and when she was with my mom, she’d say, “Mommy, I can go with you,” when I was leaving. And I’d say, “Kelsey, you can’t go with Mommy.” And she’d say, “Mommy, what happened?” I’d say—how do you answer that? And she would ask my mom, she would say, “Grandma, what happened?” But when she came back home to me, the first day she was home, she gave me a hug and said, “Mommy, I’m so proud of you. We’re home.”
Mr. Garrett: But that has nothing to do with Raymond, though, does it?
Ms. Porter: No, but that was just the time that she worried about stuff. She—she wondered—she thought about that stuff, you know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: About what stuff?
Ms. Porter: She wanted to know why is Mommy not here anymore, you know. She didn’t understand—she didn’t understand it and I—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Before we go, like, too more into that, I want to kind of get back to get, you know, through Tuesday. I know got up to at least to the fact where you-guys got up, you know, she didn’t really—I guess she’s not much of a breakfast eater. My son isn’t either.
Ms. Porter: I’m not either. I eat pizza for breakfast.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: He won’t touch the stuff.
Mr. Garrett: What kind of soup was that? You said she had some soup.
Ms. Porter: I think it was cream of chicken or something like that. Cream of chicken, I think.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. And you said she drinks tea?
Ms. Porter: She had two cups of—
Mr. Garrett: Does she like it sweet or unsweet?
Ms. Porter: Sweet.
Mr. Garrett: Sweet.
Ms. Porter: I asked her if she wanted Kool-Aid that Mommy made and she didn’t want Kool-Aid. We watched Stuart Little 2 that day. She played out side with the turtle.
Mr. Garrett: Now, that was after Jean left right?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: --and left about what time?
Ms. Porter: 1:16.
Mr. Garrett: 1:16
Ms. Porter: That’s what time it was when I looked at the clock.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: That ;morning when you’re giving her her soup, did she eat okay? Did she eat fine? Did she all of her soup?
Ms. Porter: She didn’t eat it all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Did she eat most of it? Did she eat half of it?
Ms. Porter: She ate probably most of it maybe.
Mr. Garrett: How much soup are we talking about? I mean, are we talking about an ounce or two or a whole can?
Ms. Porter: Not a whole can. Just a little bit.
Mr. Garrett: Did she eat, like, with a spoon or did you put it in a sippy cup, like she could drink it.
Ms. Porter: I put it in a bowl.
Mr. Garrett: In a bowl? She didn’t like cereal or anything like that?
Ms. Porter: She didn’t want to have it that day. And a lot of times—sometimes she would say, “Mommy, will you feed me?” She would ask if I would.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: So she ate most of her soup, so you thought she’s feeling okay, well enough to eat. And then she’s playing. Did you see any signs of stress or distress or anything that you thought she didn’t feel good or anything?
Ms. Porter: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: What time did Michael leave that morning?
Ms. Porter: I was still asleep when he left.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Okay.
Ms. Porter: But he—you know, I don’t want to say a time he left, but it was probably somewhere sevenish, because when he had to be there by 8 or something, so 7:30 or something.
Mr. Garrett: No, you were saying around 7:30 that he took her to school.
Ms. Porter: Probably.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Took—
Ms. Porter: That’s what time he usually took her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Took who? Whitney?
Ms. Porter: Whitney.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Okay. Does Kelsey go to day care? Does she usually stay home with you every day?
Ms. Porter: (The witness nodded her head.)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Okay. So she seemed fine, she at soup, ate most of her soup, played around in her PJ’s, you just explained to her that Jean was coming. And she was excited that Jean was coming, or just, “Okay, Jean is coming.”
Ms. Porter: She said, “Jean coming to see me?” I said, “Yeah.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And then Jean got there around what time? Twelve, you said?
Ms. Porter: Talked to her and did the safety thing where she, you know, went through the kitchen and looked in the drawers and stuff, how high Kelsey could reach. And she looked in the bathroom that Kelsey usually used just to check it our, and then I showed her her room. She had already seen it, but she just looked at it. And, of course, there were clothes and Kelsey’s Strawberry Shortcake backpack, and her bed was a mess.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And then Jean left about 1:15 you said?
Ms. Porter: My phone clock said 1:16 when I looked at it and Kelsey went outside. I followed Jean out and Jean said, “Hey, there’s a turtle.” And I was like. “Oh, Kelsey, look.” And so we picked it up and we put it up on the white porch that goes into the kitchen, and she sat there and played with it. And she thought it was a snake in a shell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And Jean’s gone.
Ms. Porter: Yeah, left and Kelsey told her bye and everything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: So you and Kelsey are playing with the turtle?
Ms. Porter: She tried to feed him with leaves. And I told her, I said, “That’s not a snake. That’s a turtle.” And she said “I want to touch it.” And I said, “You don’t have to touch it.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And then what happened?
Ms. Porter: We went inside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: How long do think you were outside?
Ms. Porter: Maybe ten minutes or so maybe. I don’t know. Not a long time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Okay.
Mr. Garrett: But Kelsey’s happy and she’s playing and she’ feeling fine. Is that what you’re saying?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: So then you-guys go in.
Ms. Porter: Well, sometime around there—I call my mom quite a few times a day. I’m a mama’s girl. My mom calls me probably 50 times a day. Kelsey always wants to call grandma. She did call grandma that day. Grandma was supposed to come get her, because Kelsey was waiting on grandma, because Mom was going to take her to the movies.
Mr. Garrett: And that was at five, I think you said the other day?
Ms. Porter: She was supposed to, because she got off work about 4:30.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: What time do you think it was that you called your mom?
Ms. Porter: I don’t know. I randomly call her—you know, if we’re doing anything, sometimes I’d say, “Kelsey, do you want to call Grandma?” And she’d say, “Yeah,” so we called her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: You called the house phone?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: So you-guys go back inside and—
Ms. Porter: And we also put a Thanksgiving tablecloth on the dining room table. I found some stickers that go, you know, on the windows. Me and Kelsey put those up on the kitchen.
Mr. Garrett: Are you talking about Halloween-type stuff?
Ms. Porter: Thanksgiving sticker. We put those up on the windows. And she sat in the kitchen floor on the green rug looking out the window at one point. And I said, “Kelsey, what are you doing?” And she said, “Waiting on Grandma. Grandma coming to get me.” I said, “Well, she will in a little bit.” I said, “Not right now.” And she said, “I want her to come and get me.” And I said, “She is. She’s coming later.” And I said, “Mommy promises.” And then—
Mr. Garrett: Did that upset you that Kelsey was saying things like that? I mean, is that—
Ms. Porter: No. It’s just hard right now. I miss my baby.
Mr. Garrett: I’m sure you do. Now what time was it that Michael is getting home? So you-guys are doing the tablecloth thing and you’re doing the sticker thing. So we’re looking at probably about 1:30, then, because you said 1:16 Jean leaves. And you’re outside playing with the turtle for ten minutes or so, you go back in the house and you’re doing the tablecloth and stickers and—
Ms. Porter: And then I said, “Kelsey”—she told me she wanted some berries. And I said, “You mean raisins?” and she said, “Uh-huh.” So I get her a little box of raisins and I said, “Kelsey, Mom is kind of tired.” I said, “Do you want to go lay down with Mommy?” And she said, “Uh-huh.” So we take the raisins in there and she lays down beside me and I lay down beside her.
Mr. Garrett: Where did you lay at?
Ms. Porter: In my bed. In our bedroom.
Mr. Garrett: What that a queen-sized bed?
Ms. Porter: King. And it was on Channel 43 and Montel was on and--
Mr.Garrett: Montel—is that Williams or something?
Ms. Porter: I think so. I don’t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT:..About what time do you think that was?
Ms. Porter: About—when we laid down it was either 1:45 or 2:00. It was in there, because Montel hadn’t been on very long. And Kelsey laid down beside me and she was eating her raisins. And she would—every time she would get some out and put them in her mouth, she would close the box back up. And then she would open it back up and get some more. And I told her, I said, “Kelsey, quit rattling that box.” And she said, “Mommy, I have to get some.” And I said, “Okay.” And then we laid there for little bit. And then I noticed she had kind of put her raisins down. And I looked—it was not very long and I looked—I looked at her and she was asleep. So I went to—you know, I fell asleep. And then Mike comes home.
Mr. Garrett: And what time was that?
Ms. Porter: I think it was about 2:45.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Did it wake you up when he came home or were you already awake?
Ms. Porter: He—I think he tapped me, but I’m not really sure, because I was asleep. And anyway, he—I said, “Okay. I’ll” –I got up to go get Whitney, and I slipped out of bed, because I didn’t want to wake Kelsey up.
Mr. Garrett: What did you drive?
(A cell phone rings.)
Mr. Garrett: I’m sorry about this. My turn-off switch is broke. Do you know how to take the battery out of that thing? I thought I had it on silent. I’m sorry. That is a real pain. So about 2:45 Mike comes home and he wakes you up. What did you drive to go get Whitney?
Ms. Porter: I drove the truck.
Mr. Garrett: And why did you drive the truck?
Ms. Porter: Because it runs better.
Mr. Garrett: What kind of truck is it?
Ms. Porter: A Ford four-door.
Mr. Garrett: So it’s a four-door pickup?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: And Whitney goes to school at—
Ms. Porter: In Shawnee at Sequoyah.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. Now, whenever Kelsey was sleeping with you there in bed, did she—did she do anything? Did she use the bathroom or—did she use the bathroom that day any?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: How many times? Did she poop?
Ms. Porter: I laughed about that the other day, yesterday.
Mr. Garrett: How many times did you change her clothes? Did she do the Pull-Ups or did she go to the potty?
Ms. Porter: She wears panties.
Mr. Garrett: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: She’s potty trained.
Mr. Garrett: But she wasn’t wearing panties the other night when I saw her.
Ms. Porter: I know. Sometimes—because she had an accident.
Mr. Garrett: When? That day?
Ms. Porter: Yeah.
Mr. Garrett: What time was that?
Ms. Porter: It was when we were outside playing with the turtle. Sometimes when she just got busy—
Mr. Garrett: So she had an accident out there when she was playing with the turtle.
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. And she told me, “Mommy, I had an accident.”
Mr. Garrett: Did she poop?
Ms. Porter: She just peed in her panties. I said, “No big deal.”
Mr. Garrett: Is it hard to train her?
Ms. Porter: No.
Mr. Garrett: I mean, have you been working on the potty training thing with her?
Ms. Porter: Yeah.
Mr. Garrett: Is that a hard job? I mean, you-guys are mamas. Does it aggravate you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: I’ve tried. Boys are a lot more difficult than girls.
Ms. Porter: My nephew was difficult when he was little.
Mr. Garrett: I mean, does that aggravate you any when she does that?
Ms. Porter: No.
Ms. Garrett: I mean, because I know it’s got to be stressful when you’re—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: It is.
Mr. Garrett: --working on trying to get them in that mode of potty training.
Ms. Porter: She was just really good about it. But, you know, if she got too busy, she might have an accident.
Mr. Garrett: So when did she do the pooping thing? Was that before that or afterwards?
Ms. Porter: Oh, my God.
Mr. Garrett: Do you remember?
Ms. Porter: I don’t know. I don’t know.
Mr. Garrett: But sometime that day?
Ms. Porter: Yeah.
Mr. Garrett: Now, was she—did she do that on the potty?
Ms. Porter: Uh-huh. She did it on the potty and she said, “Mommy, I have to poop.” And I said, “Okay. Let’s go.” And I kind of made it a little—
Mr. Garrett: Was she on any medication at all?
Ms. Porter: The only thing I gave her the night before was a little bit of cold and cough Tylenol, because she had kind of a runny nose.
Mr. Garrett: Okay. So night before, which would be, what, Monday night?
Ms. Porter: (The witness nodded her head.)
Mr. Garrett: Right? This is Thursday. So this all happened Tuesday, so it would be Monday night. How much did you give her?
Ms. Porter: Two teaspoons.
Mr. Garrett: Two teaspoons. Is that a lot or is that—
Ms. Porter: I think that’s about—that’s right.
Mr. Garrett: You call it Tylenol what?
Ms. Porter: Tylenol Cold and Cough.
Mr. Garrett: Cold and cough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Children’s or—
Ms. Porter: Chidlren’s
Mr. Garrett: Is there a chance that maybe whenever maybe she had an accident or whatever, you know, the urine or the feces or the poop deal, that maybe you busted her or something?
Ms. Porter: No, I didn’t spank her?
Mr. Garrett: You didn’t spank her for that?
Ms. Porter: No.
Mr. Garrett: Was—
Ms. Porter: God.
Mr. Garrett: --she crying or something when you were trying to go to sleep?
Ms. Porter: No. She just laid beside me and we went to sleep.
Mr. Garrett: Well there had to be some—she had some really major trauma inside internally. So are you sure maybe she didn’t do something that maybe got you upset and you busted her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Because you have to understand where we’re coming from as far as the information that we’re receiving from the medial examiner’s office. And what they’re saying is that she had trauma that was caused externally. So something happened. It wasn’t the seizure, it wasn’t an aneurysm, it wasn’t anything like that. Something externally happened to her.
Ms. Porter: I don’t believe that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Do you believe that we would lie to you?
Ms. Porter: I don’t believe that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Because—
Mr. Garrett: Why do you not believe that? Were you worried about Lance coming back, Raymond? Was there something dealing with that that had you kind of stressed out?
Ms. Porter: No. I would never hurt my baby.
Mr. Garrett: Well, are you sure—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: You have to help us understand what happened.
Mr. Garrett: We want to know why. We just want to find out what happened.
Ms. Porter: I want to know why too. That’s why—
Mr. Garrett: Was it just too much? Was it just too much for you with Raymond coming back and having to deal with all that crap again? Did that have something to do with what happened?
Ms. Porter: I was trying to protect her. I was trying so hard to protect her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And I believe that. I believe that you thought—
Ms. Porter: I called everybody to—oh, my God.
Mr. Garrett: Did Michael say anything to you about what could have taken place from the time that you left to go get Whitney?
Ms. Porter: I’m in shock. I’m sorry.
Mr. Garrett: Is thee anything that you can think that maybe Michael said?
Ms. Porter: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: There’s nothing that you can think of that happened that Tuesday that could have—that would cause the medical examiner’s office to say that Kelsey died of external injuries?
Ms. Porter: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Not from a seizure, not from, you know, like I said, any kind of aneurysm or anything like that. Something happened to her. And you’ve got to understand that we’re trying to understand if there was anything that went on in that house that day that could cause these injuries to Kelsey. We’re just trying to understand what happened. We’re not trying to blame—I mean, I know that having to deal with Kathie and that whole family is extremely stressful. Kelsey is going through a lot of stress. You’re going through a lot of stress. I’m sure it’s putting a lot of stress on Michael and maybe you-guy’s relationship, having to deal with everything that’s coming from over there. You know, I have a 2 ½ year old. I know how stressful that can be. I know how demanding they can be. I know how tired you are.
Ms. Porter: She was a good, perfect daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: I believe that. But sometimes, you know—
Ms. Porter: There is not way ever, ever, ever I would have hurt her. She was my life. We were one person. And I—I cannot believe what you’re telling me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: And our job is to—to find out what happened to Kelsey. I mean—and I can tell you I 100,000 percent sympathize with you. I can’t imagine losing a child, but I know that, you know, something had to happen to her. And we’re hoping that you’re going to be able to tell us what happened to her.
Ms. Porter: That’s what I told my mom. I said, “I want to know what was wrong with her.” I had her checked from head to toe inside and out to find out.
Mr. Garrett: Do you ever sometimes maybe get upset and you don’t remember or don’t realize the that you could have maybe—
Ms. Porter: No, no.
Mr. Garrett: Did you maybe knee her or something or maybe squeeze her too hard or discipline her—
Ms. Porter: No.
Mr. Garrett: --over some of that stuff?
Ms. Porter: We had a—no.
Mr. Garrett: Because kids can be—I’ve got one that’s five and Zae’s got one. And they can sometimes really drive you crazy asking 200 questions every second, you know, “Mommy, what’s this?” “Mommy, what’s that?” or “I want this,” “I want that.” You’re tired, you’re trying to get some sleep, you’re pregnant, you don’t feel good. I mean, is there maybe something that happened in there that you don’t remember?
Mr. Porter: No.
Mr. Garrett: Or you do remember and you don’t want to tell us?
Ms. Porter: No, no. I don’t—I don’t understand.
Mr. Garrett: Well, we’re trying to make sense of what took place to go along with what happened, with what the M.E.’s office is saying happened to your daughter.
Ms. Porter: I want to know.
Mr. Garrett: But you do know. I mean, you ought to be able to tell us, because she’s fin up until that point.
Ms. Porter: That’s what I don’t understand. She was fine.
Mr. Garrett: Did she ask a lot of questions? Is she one of those little girls or little child that was always asking stuff?
Ms. Porter: She new everything.
Mr. Garrett: She’s two years old. I mean, you need to help us. We need to try to figure out what happened to her, how she could have had those internal injuries. Are you really upset?
Ms. Porter: How can you ask me that? I don’t –I am in shock.
Mr. Garrett: Do you want to know how I can ask you that? I don’t see a tear coming out of your face. There is not one drop. Look at me. There is not one drop.
Ms. Porter: I have cried and cried and cried. And I’m in shock, I’m upset, I’m mad. I don’t understand.
Mr. Garrett: you wasn’t crying Tuesday night.
Ms. Porter: Yes, I was.
Mr. Garrett: You’re like you are right now.
Ms. Porter: I was in shock. That was my daughter.
Mr. Garrett: What happened to her? What happened? Can you tell us? Just please tell us what happened.
Ms. Porter: I told you-all the truth of everything. I’m in shock. I can’t believe I’m sitting here hearing this.
Mr. Garrett: Was there some kind of an injury that took place that she did? Or somebody else might have come over? Are you trying to protect somebody? What happened?
Ms. Porter: No, no, no. I don’t know how to explain this.
Mr. Garrett: And we hate having to ask you these tough question, but we’ve got to find out why.
Ms. Porter I understand you-all are trying to help, and I begged people to help. And to tell the truth, right now, I am—I can’t believe you’re sitting her telling me this. I am in shock. I can’t believe this.
Mr. Garrett: We have a tough job. I agree with that, don’t you, Zae?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Uh-huh.
Mr. Garrett: I mean, this is a tough job. Now, we don’t much like this either, but we’re trying to—we’re working for Kelsey. We’re trying to help Kelsey to try to figure out what took place.
Ms. Porter: And I—
Mr. Garrett And it’s not every day that we get a chance to work for somebody that’s two years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Raye, if you have a problem—listen to me. If you have a problem, like with your anger—and I want you to listen to me, in being able to control yourself. And from what I understand right now—are you pregnant again?
Ms. Porter: (The witness nodded her head.)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: You don’t want to have to be in this position again. You need to get some help.
Ms. Porter: I—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Let me finish. If you’ve got some kind of problem with your anger and being able to control that or whatever, you need to be able to—address that so you can get some help, if not for Kelsey then for the baby that’s coming, okay, because something happened. Something happened, okay. Look at me. Something happened to Kelsey. She just didn’t lay down on that bed and pass away, okay. Something happened, and you have to tell us what happened.
Ms. Porter: How can I tell you when I don’t know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: You were the only person that was there.
Ms. Porter: That’s my baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: I know that you love your baby, and I know that that was—
Ms. Porter: I do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: I know, but something happened.
Mr. Garrett: Nobody else was there but you. And you’re telling us earlier that Michael couldn’t have done anything like that.
Ms. Porter: There’s no way.
Mr. Garrett: So if she was in bed sleeping when Michael came home and you left that way until the time you got back there—
Ms. Porter: And then he told me, he said he heard her grunting. He went in there.
Mr. Garrett: And you what that was about? That’s because after the internal injury that she had. She didn’t—the M.E.’s office said she didn’t just die immediately. You know, she was probably suffering.
Ms. Porter: He said he brought her back. He said he brought her back.
Mr. Garrett: He brought her back where?
Ms. Porter: He said that he gave her CPR and he brought her back. And then she grabbed a hold of my mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Raye, listen to me. You’re going to have to at some point—you’re going to have to tell your mom what happened. You’re going to have to tell Michael what happened.
Ms. Porter: I can’t believe this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Okay.
Ms. Porter: I cannot believe this. I cannot believe this.
Mr. Garrett: And I know this has got to be a whole lost of stress to have to live through, but you’re going to have to—
Ms. Porter: I did not hurt my baby.
Mr. Garrett: Like Zae said, you’ve got another one coming on. And if Whitney is around the house and Michael Gage, I mean, if you get angry or something, we need to know about it.
Ms. Porter: That’s not—oh, my God. I have never hurt my baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: I don’t think you meant to hurt her.
Mr. Garrett: I don’t either.
Ms. Porter: I didn’t hurt her.
Mr. Garrett: I agree with Zae. I don’t think you meant to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: I don’t think you meant to, Raye.
Mr. Garrett: And it probably didn’t take but just a second.
Ms. Porter: I didn’t hurt my baby.
Mr. Garrett: Little babies are so fragile.
Ms. Porter: You-all tell me that—
Mr. Garrett: They’re just so fragile. It doesn’t take a lot sometimes to hurt them. And whenever you get upset, I mean, it’s just so quickly that sometimes you can lose your temper and things happen. And that’s a normal thing. Everybody has problems like that.
Ms. Porter: What do I need to prove to you-all that I did not hurt my baby? What do I need to do? What do I need to do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Well, then, what do you think happened? Who do you think could have done this? I mean, we’re being logical here.
Ms. Porter: How do you explain the grunting and the—what Mike explained to me and what he seen?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Raye, that’s because of the internal injuries that she had. She was suffering, okay.
Mr. Garrett: She didn’t die immediately. I mean, she was hurting. And there’s no way that she could have been laying in bed with you and not letting you know that she wasn’t feeling good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: If there’s another answer, Raye, help us find it, okay. You tell me what else could have happened. I mean, if you were with her that entire time from when she got up until you left her with Mike, then you explain to me what else could have happened to Kelsey. You explain how she could have sustained abdominal injuries.
Ms. Porter: I told everybody that I thought she had an ulcer—
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: This is not an ulcer/
Ms. Porter: --because every now and then she would say her belly hurt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Raye, look at me. Look at me. You are going to have to tell the truth.
Ms. Porter: I am telling you the truth. I swear to God. I put it on my daddy’s grave.
Mr. Garrett: Her intestines were bleeding. She was hurt so bad that her intestines are bleeding. That’s not from an ulcer.
Ms. Porter: Oh, my God. My baby.
Mr. Garrett: That’s not from an ulcer, Raye. That is something you had to have done.
Ms. Porter: I did not hurt my baby.
Mr. Garrett: And we’re not saying you did it intentionally.
Ms. Porter: I did not hurt my baby. I can’t believe you’re telling me this.
Mr. Garrett: We just need you to tell us what took place and why she got those injuries.
Ms. Porter: Can I please talk to my mom?
Mr. Garrett: Well, can you look at me and just tell me—
Ms. Porter: This is ridiculous.
Mr. Garrett: Is there any reason you can’t tell us why—what took place?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Who did you tell that she had an ulcer? Who did you tell?
Ms. Porter: I have told my mom I thought she had one; I’ve told Ms. Julie I thought she had one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: What made you think she had and ulcer?
Ms. Porter: Because of the way sometimes she would just go “Ow”.
Mr. Garrett: Did she do that that day?
Ms. Porter: She said her belly hurt.
Mr. Garrett: Did she tell you Tuesday her belly hurt?
Ms. Porter: Yeah.
Mr. Garrett: When was that? Was it after Ms. Jean left?
Ms. Porter: No. It was—it was before.
Mr. Garrett: It was before Jean got there that she was telling you that her belly was hurting?
Ms. Porter: But she only said it—I think she only said it once.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: What was she doing when she said her belly was hurt?
Ms. Porter: She was sitting on her bed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Had she eaten yet?
Ms. Porter: Uh-uh. And that’s—I cannot believe this. I’m in shock.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AGENT: Just try to calm down.
Mr. Garrett: Did you give her any medicine for the stomach?
Ms. Porter. No.
{Note: Obtained from
http://www.kelseyspurpose.org/} (Incomplete)
